tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-552358014685805851.post5575786652688571087..comments2023-11-05T02:35:48.009-05:00Comments on Track Twenty-Nine: Streetcars, Version 2.0Matt'http://www.blogger.com/profile/15011703558247093148noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-552358014685805851.post-53817458422895557572009-05-01T18:10:00.000-04:002009-05-01T18:10:00.000-04:00Nice plan, but I think it would be better to run t...Nice plan, but I think it would be better to run the Rossyln-Courthouse line down Lee Highway.Aguirrenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-552358014685805851.post-41055053805656024472009-03-14T02:47:00.000-04:002009-03-14T02:47:00.000-04:00I would like to see more of Arlington and Fairfax ...I would like to see more of Arlington and Fairfax County covered. Can you make an updated map showing that?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-552358014685805851.post-51480455626114471702008-11-30T18:28:00.000-05:002008-11-30T18:28:00.000-05:00richard layman led me here after i saw him mention...richard layman led me here after i saw him mention your blog in his blog, urban places and spaces<BR/><BR/>i like the ambition of your map and like that you have thought about how streetcars can travel down part of the line, then loop back, at various points<BR/><BR/>i wonder what you think of the dedicated lane versus mixed traffic debate. pros and cons of each? as near as i can tell, dedicated lane may create more automotive gridlock if a lane of traffic is dedicated or less parking if curbside is dedicated. mixed traffic, as stated, has the problem of streetcars getting caught in traffic (and increases the unimaginable possibility of a streetcar/vehicle accident? historically, how often did such a tragedy occur?)<BR/><BR/>your thoughts on mixed versus dedicated?<BR/><BR/>- alanAlan Pagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07349389379428110815noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-552358014685805851.post-22780342490978036402008-11-30T16:49:00.000-05:002008-11-30T16:49:00.000-05:00This has come up before, and I neglected to mentio...This has come up before, and I neglected to mention it in the text of the post. For the intents and purposes of the future envisioned in the Streetcar Plan (v. 2.0), it is assumed that all of my other transit plans are constructed.<BR/><BR/>In that regard, Metro station is currently located at 16th and Colorado, but I include one in my Metro/Light Rail plan. <BR/><BR/>If you haven't seen my other plans, you'd probably be interested in those. They are available at: http://tracktwentynine.blogspot.com/search/label/Transportation%20Futures.<BR/><BR/>As always, thanks for reading.Matt'https://www.blogger.com/profile/15011703558247093148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-552358014685805851.post-42403440392481655922008-11-30T16:34:00.000-05:002008-11-30T16:34:00.000-05:00Nice map. Is there a metro at 16 and Colorado? Al...Nice map. Is there a metro at 16 and Colorado? Also, I think more east-west travel would be useful. I think DC considered a Military Road line in their modern concept of streetcars. Although, it could be difficult. Miltary road is narrow at some points. I enjoy checking your maps, if only to dream.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-552358014685805851.post-78053233836534431402008-11-30T12:16:00.000-05:002008-11-30T12:16:00.000-05:00this site is so awesome. What do we have to do to ...this site is so awesome. What do we have to do to make this a reality?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-552358014685805851.post-38034044640445716502008-11-25T16:45:00.000-05:002008-11-25T16:45:00.000-05:00in my writings I've suggested that the crosstown l...in my writings I've suggested that the crosstown line, renamed the University line, could have a Y at the west end going to Georgetown on one end, and AU on the other, and instead of terminating at Michigan Eastern as you do, I extend this up Queens Chapel Road and Adelphi Road to UMD and back. <BR/><BR/>Similarly, in 2005 in talking with Peter Shapiro (then a County Councilmember), he suggested a RI line could go all the way to Laurel.<BR/><BR/>Note that MTA did a streetcar study for RI Ave. in the mid 1990s. I have a CD of it somewhere (post move who knows where) but you can probably get a copy from Henry Kay or someone similar at MTA.Richard Laymanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02765521217875752850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-552358014685805851.post-59484513904836787302008-11-19T00:38:00.000-05:002008-11-19T00:38:00.000-05:00fourthandeye, thanks for keeping me honest. I left...fourthandeye, thanks for keeping me honest. I left for Railvolution out in San Francisco immediately after posting this, and response to comments has fallen by the wayside.<BR/><BR/>Sorry about that.<BR/><BR/>Anyway, about the length of the lines causing bunching and delays, I agree. General consensus after my last plan was that I hadn't included enough streetcar, so I added more. <BR/><BR/>Many of these streetcar lines (such as the Georgia Avenue Line to Silver Spring) were real streetcar lines in DC's historic past. While that makes the lines long, it also allows people to reverse commute. But that's not the main point. The idea is for me to make a short hop. I live near 14th and Shepherd NW and work in Silver Spring. I would probably not take the streetcar from Shepherd/Georgia to Silver Spring. I'd still take the metro. But I might ride the trolley up to 14th Street Heights or down to Columbia Heights for dinner or coffee.<BR/><BR/>Dedicated lanes would certainly reduce the tendency to bunch and be tardy, but would also increase the cost and reduce the feasibility of the system.<BR/><BR/>In all likelyhood, only segments (if any) of this proposal would be built, negating some of the problems.<BR/><BR/>As for lines like the Naylor Road-Friendship Heights (purple) line, I never really intended to have streetcars run from one end to the other. Maps can only be so complex before they break down. Someone has already accused the existing map of being too complex. <BR/><BR/>In reality, trains from Anacostia would probably turn back at Washington Circle, while trains from Friendship Heights could turn around at Columbus Circle. The occasional train could make the full route, but that's not particularly necessary because it would be faster to take the Metro in most cases.<BR/><BR/>Again these exercises are much about re-envisioning our city and transit network, and that necessitates pushing the envelope.<BR/><BR/>If it makes it easier to imagine, insert streetcar turnback loops where you think they'd be appropriate. For instance, the 50s line buses run from L'Enfant Plaza to Takoma Park. But only about 30% of the buses make it all the way to Takoma. The rest turnback at the old streetcar terminal at 14th/Colorado. Streetcars in my plan would do that too, but I decided that showing a bunch of loops would've been confusing.<BR/><BR/>Another observation about the 50s line buses (which follow my dark blue 14th Street Streetcar) is that most of the passengers are making short hops and most *don't* transfer to the Metro at Columbia Heights. A southbound bus in the morning from my stop at 14th/Shepherd stops at almost every corner to <I>discharge</I> passengers.<BR/><BR/>Therefore I think it's safe to say that on many of these intra-city routes, streetcars would serve a market other than transfer-to-metro riders. <BR/><BR/>Thoughts?Matt'https://www.blogger.com/profile/15011703558247093148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-552358014685805851.post-20934184410637166602008-11-19T00:11:00.000-05:002008-11-19T00:11:00.000-05:00Matt, 3 different comments mentioned that the line...Matt, 3 different comments mentioned that the lines seem too long to maintain reliable service in mixed traffic. Do you have a response?FourthandEyehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01375066623120413156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-552358014685805851.post-47111652639813878272008-10-28T02:46:00.000-04:002008-10-28T02:46:00.000-04:00I love the map, and I think it is most appropriate...I love the map, and I think it is most appropriate if policies are enacted to more strongly discourage automobile dependency in the District. I'm wondering, however, if there might be some merit to changing your non-revenue track to revenue tracks. But then again, I live way out in Laurel and I'm all about connectivity between outer locations.Davemurphyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07331653772702609738noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-552358014685805851.post-17919273648653214812008-10-27T15:02:00.000-04:002008-10-27T15:02:00.000-04:00I agree on the point of shorter lines. For a stree...I agree on the point of shorter lines. For a street car that runs in mixed traffic I'm doubting they can stay on time with lines that span all the way from Friendship Heights to Naylor road in Anacostia.<BR/><BR/>Also, I've expressed this point in the past, but I'd love to see your take on prioritization of street car lines. It's fun to draw out what seems like 50+ miles of track as if it can all happen instantaneously. But the most useful conversations surround those first 5-10 miles of track.FourthandEyehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01375066623120413156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-552358014685805851.post-16606132637111597352008-10-27T13:00:00.000-04:002008-10-27T13:00:00.000-04:00Nice map, and those are some good thoughts. I sec...Nice map, and those are some good thoughts. I second the anonymous comment above about dedicated lanes as a priority.<BR/><BR/>While I like the corridors you identify for streetcars, I do think several of the lines are simply too long. You say that these are intended as "pedestrian accelerators," but I think having such a long line will make it more difficult for pedestrians to identify where they are and where they want to go. I also wonder if streetcars would be on time more often if they work shorter routes.<BR/><BR/>The way I see it, streetcars fill the gaps between heavy rail stations (and in the Metro system, our heavy rail fills a dual-role as both intra-city transit and commuter transit, so there are a lot of gaps to fill). The focus for streetcars should be short projects that branch out from and connect a few local stations. The current plans for the Anacostia streetcar seem to be in this mold. <BR/><BR/>A typical user traveling a short distance can simply take a streetcar. A user traveling a longer distance should be able to take heavy rail to a metro station, and transfer from there to streetcar to reach his final destination. Breaking the system up into smaller, more manageable chunks (centered around metro station or major districts) will help everyone understand and navigate the whole system.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-552358014685805851.post-16897563607326865892008-10-27T11:59:00.000-04:002008-10-27T11:59:00.000-04:00I'd suggest extending the crosstown line past Wood...I'd suggest extending the crosstown line past Woodley Park to American University and then up to the Tenleytown Metro station. Basically take Woodley Rd to Garfield St to Massachusetts Ave to Nebraska Ave to the Tenleytown Metro station.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-552358014685805851.post-3805150464035586062008-10-27T08:48:00.000-04:002008-10-27T08:48:00.000-04:00Nice map. I would love to see DC reinstate a comp...Nice map. I would love to see DC reinstate a comprehsnsive streetcar network. I think my only real dofference of opinion is having the streetcars run in mixed traffic, especially on the longer lines. Dedicated ROW is the way to go. Case in point, look at the TTC's streetcars that operate in mixzed traffic. They routinely have low on-time performance and are subject to horrible bunching, especially during rush hour. The result is constantly having to turn back cars to try to keep the schedule and service somewhat reliable. The best TTC example os this problem is the Queen St line. I know that giving up space for cars in DC is like asking someone to give up their firstborn, but it needs to happen if the streetcar network can ever be truly successful and reliable. Even giving them an exclsive lane on the curb would be an option, but still less than ideal. However, I also realize that some of the streets in DC would not allow for an exclusive ROW, but I would advocate that wherever possible, build an exclusive ROW.<BR/><BR/>Great blog BTW. I thought I was the only transit geek around.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com